Friday, August 8, 2008
Can vs. Should (Part 2)
So I have taken more than a few days to respond to all of the comments. My apologies. I have been thinking a lot about the responses to part 1 and have re-worked my approach a couple of times. There is so much going on here that it will certainly take more than one post to chase all of the threads. Here are some of the posts that I am considering:
· Of price points and print runs
· What makes a large print Bible a large print Bible?
· Red letter?! We don’t need no stinking red letter!
· To sew or not to sew, that is the question
· I can’t think of a clever title for a post on paper right now, it’s Friday and frankly, I’m distracted by the fact that Dr. Who is a re-run tonight and that Blackhawks tickets go on sale this coming Monday – opening night here I come.
While the above are important, it would seem that the biggest issue for many of you is the issue of an edition for the “gatekeepers” – most notably for pastors and for teachers who will influence the use (and purchase) of the NLT by others. For the record, I completely agree with you and we want to create Bibles that work for you. We are also very aware of the influence of pastors and teachers as a company. Large portions of our marketing are targeted at gatekeepers. We have not always been where in the product development arena, but we are working on it. Further, it doesn’t make sense for us to create Bibles that don’t actually get used or aren’t useful. We can sell them for while, but sooner or later the newness or the coolness wears thin. If the NLT hasn’t been read then did it really do any good?
Part of my difficulty in writing this post is that on the one hand I don’t want to just say “I can’t really tell you anything specific, but trust me there’s a lot more to it” and at the same time there are a whole lot of numbers that could show the realities and difficulties in producing some of the Bibles that we would like to produce, but simply posting those numbers could also get me in a lot of trouble internally (and one my fellow bloggers in three levels up the company ladder from my boss . . .).
So at the risk of being too mysterious, there are certain hard costs involved in the production of any new Bible which quickly run into multiple tens of thousands of dollars (and that’s for the simple ones, a study Bible like the NLT Study Bible for instance goes a lot further north in a hurry) before you even print anything.
So for every Bible we create we have to reach certain realistic sales thresholds in order to simply break even on the development, let alone the costs of the inventory. Obviously we have more than a few that not only reach breakeven but which are also profitable. The reality is, however, there are more that don’t. And this holds true for publishing in general as well. More books fail than ever make a profit.
I am sure that all of this sounds like a cop out and you can feel a very big “but” coming. Not so. I asked the question of what you want because we need to know and it's my job to figure out how to make the most useful Bibles possible. We won’t always be able to accommodate your desires, but if we can find a way to do so and make it a viable venture then I am all for it.
We are actively working on several products which may well be solutions to many (though maybe not all) of your desires. I can’t go into specifics on these right now, but I can say that several of the issues that have been brought up in the comments relating to this and other posts on the NLTBlog are part of the discussions. As these products get nearer to release, you will hear more about them.
I did, however, want to give a couple of specific replies to your comments:
Shorter print runs and higher prices for editions like Select. It is true that we can do shorter print runs of individual products and charge higher prices for them. The equation is a bit more complex, however. In the case of the Select Bible, we took an existing product and modified it. We literally took unbound bibles (called “sigs” – short for signatures, which actually refers to the way that sections of a book come off the printing press, but I digress), had covers hand-made in Mexico, sent to the printer in the US and attached, imported deluxe boxes from Hong Kong . . . you get the idea. This was the only way to be cost effective in the production of this Bible. And Iyov, you’re right it’s not even close to a best seller. We still have some left from that original printing. More on this issue in a future post. (And by the way license deals are most certainly a part of what we do).
Cd-Host: the idea of bundling software for distribution on a computer is something that I hadn’t thought about and which I find intriguing. Rest-assured, software is high on our list of things to do, so you will be seeing more from us in the future.
Thomas, the “build a Bible” concept has actually been tried. I don’t think it worked out so well for the publisher. That being said, at some point, it will probably become a viable option.
Rick, you are right, we need to figure out a way to get page samples on the website. I have passed on that request and the issue of linking together various bindings of a given product. In the meantime, here is a list of the bindings available in the large print personal size. I will have a text sample as a part of my post on large print Bibles.
Hardcover: 978-1-4143-1405-1 retail: $24.99
Black Imitation leather (heavy paper, not the synthetic leather made from polyurethane): 978-1-4143-1403-7 retail: $29.99
Burgundy Imitation leather: 978-1-4143-1404-4 retail: $29.99
Black bonded leather: 978-1-4143-1401-3 retail: $39.99
Burgundy bonded leather: 978-1-4143-1402-0 retail: $39.99
Brown and Tan TuTone leatherlike: 978-1-4143-1871-4 retail: $39.99
More to come, and keep the comments and suggestions coming!
· Of price points and print runs
· What makes a large print Bible a large print Bible?
· Red letter?! We don’t need no stinking red letter!
· To sew or not to sew, that is the question
· I can’t think of a clever title for a post on paper right now, it’s Friday and frankly, I’m distracted by the fact that Dr. Who is a re-run tonight and that Blackhawks tickets go on sale this coming Monday – opening night here I come.
While the above are important, it would seem that the biggest issue for many of you is the issue of an edition for the “gatekeepers” – most notably for pastors and for teachers who will influence the use (and purchase) of the NLT by others. For the record, I completely agree with you and we want to create Bibles that work for you. We are also very aware of the influence of pastors and teachers as a company. Large portions of our marketing are targeted at gatekeepers. We have not always been where in the product development arena, but we are working on it. Further, it doesn’t make sense for us to create Bibles that don’t actually get used or aren’t useful. We can sell them for while, but sooner or later the newness or the coolness wears thin. If the NLT hasn’t been read then did it really do any good?
Part of my difficulty in writing this post is that on the one hand I don’t want to just say “I can’t really tell you anything specific, but trust me there’s a lot more to it” and at the same time there are a whole lot of numbers that could show the realities and difficulties in producing some of the Bibles that we would like to produce, but simply posting those numbers could also get me in a lot of trouble internally (and one my fellow bloggers in three levels up the company ladder from my boss . . .).
So at the risk of being too mysterious, there are certain hard costs involved in the production of any new Bible which quickly run into multiple tens of thousands of dollars (and that’s for the simple ones, a study Bible like the NLT Study Bible for instance goes a lot further north in a hurry) before you even print anything.
So for every Bible we create we have to reach certain realistic sales thresholds in order to simply break even on the development, let alone the costs of the inventory. Obviously we have more than a few that not only reach breakeven but which are also profitable. The reality is, however, there are more that don’t. And this holds true for publishing in general as well. More books fail than ever make a profit.
I am sure that all of this sounds like a cop out and you can feel a very big “but” coming. Not so. I asked the question of what you want because we need to know and it's my job to figure out how to make the most useful Bibles possible. We won’t always be able to accommodate your desires, but if we can find a way to do so and make it a viable venture then I am all for it.
We are actively working on several products which may well be solutions to many (though maybe not all) of your desires. I can’t go into specifics on these right now, but I can say that several of the issues that have been brought up in the comments relating to this and other posts on the NLTBlog are part of the discussions. As these products get nearer to release, you will hear more about them.
I did, however, want to give a couple of specific replies to your comments:
Shorter print runs and higher prices for editions like Select. It is true that we can do shorter print runs of individual products and charge higher prices for them. The equation is a bit more complex, however. In the case of the Select Bible, we took an existing product and modified it. We literally took unbound bibles (called “sigs” – short for signatures, which actually refers to the way that sections of a book come off the printing press, but I digress), had covers hand-made in Mexico, sent to the printer in the US and attached, imported deluxe boxes from Hong Kong . . . you get the idea. This was the only way to be cost effective in the production of this Bible. And Iyov, you’re right it’s not even close to a best seller. We still have some left from that original printing. More on this issue in a future post. (And by the way license deals are most certainly a part of what we do).
Cd-Host: the idea of bundling software for distribution on a computer is something that I hadn’t thought about and which I find intriguing. Rest-assured, software is high on our list of things to do, so you will be seeing more from us in the future.
Thomas, the “build a Bible” concept has actually been tried. I don’t think it worked out so well for the publisher. That being said, at some point, it will probably become a viable option.
Rick, you are right, we need to figure out a way to get page samples on the website. I have passed on that request and the issue of linking together various bindings of a given product. In the meantime, here is a list of the bindings available in the large print personal size. I will have a text sample as a part of my post on large print Bibles.
Hardcover: 978-1-4143-1405-1 retail: $24.99
Black Imitation leather (heavy paper, not the synthetic leather made from polyurethane): 978-1-4143-1403-7 retail: $29.99
Burgundy Imitation leather: 978-1-4143-1404-4 retail: $29.99
Black bonded leather: 978-1-4143-1401-3 retail: $39.99
Burgundy bonded leather: 978-1-4143-1402-0 retail: $39.99
Brown and Tan TuTone leatherlike: 978-1-4143-1871-4 retail: $39.99
More to come, and keep the comments and suggestions coming!
posted by Kevin O'Brien at 4:44 PM
Hi, I missed commenting on the original post, but here is my $0.02.
"To sew or not to sew, that is the question"
"If the NLT hasn’t been read then did it really do any good?"
I know it probably wasn't your intent for these to be linked together, but IMHO, if a book (other than a trade paperback whose purpose is different) doesn't have a sewn binding, it is almost worthless. I know that sounds harsh, but to me books are investments meant to last a long, long time. This is especially true of a Bible, at least for me. I want to have one and use it and write in it and have it be a companion for a good long time. All of which is not possible with a sewn binding. Most glued bindings, you cant even open the book far enough to read the text in the gutter without breaking the spine (I've lost 3 TNIV hardbacks from IBS this way).
I realize that it is more expensive to produce and probably results in thinner profit margins (if it is a profitable edition at all), but I don't think that justifies it. Its a book, and should be made a certain way. In my mind, its like GM saying they can make alloy wheels cheaper and at greater profit by making them square. It may be cheaper, but its a car! It has to have round wheels!
Maybe thats oversimplification, but I don't necessarily think so.
Please understand, I'm not trying to be critical or disrespectful (especially since you guys are so graciously sending me an NLTSB for free!). I know that often hands are tied and you can only do certain things within certain limitations. I just may not like it all the time ;)
Keep up the good work. I'm really enjoying the interaction that has been happening on this blog.
ooops, I meant "All of which is not possible with a GLUED binding."
In the 1st long paragraph.
Dave: I agree... Personally out of all the things future editions of the NLT can offer, sewn bindings are highest on my list. I prefer large print editions but I am more then willing to sacrifice the readability of a larger font if I could get a good sewn binding.
Following are a few of my thoughts on this topic:
Red letters need to go the way of 8-track tapes. I don't know if my colorblindness hinders me in that regard but I have a hard time reading the red text.
The text must not get lost in the gutter.
The paper must be of sufficient quality to allow words on the page to be read without distracting ghost words from the following pages blurring the text being read. (It's too early in the morning for me to make that into a decent sentence.)
Things that are nice to have under the constraint of profitability:
Sewn bindings make for a longer lasting Bible.
Quality leather.
The Bible should open and stay open without help from the reader's hands.
A minimum of two ribbons.
It would be nice to have several historic creeds in the back of the Bible cross-referenced to Scripture. The Apostles' Creed, The Nicene Creed and The Athanasian Creed for starters.
Regardless of the above we live in extraordinary times. Books are affordable for the common man. Even if the books are not made to last 5, 10, or 20 or more years people are able to afford them whereas in the not so distant past book ownership was possible only for the wealthy.
And in the slightly more distant past books were not available at all!
Kevin, I want to come back around to this issue again that's been brought up in your two posts regarding "can vs. should" and useful editions of the NLT.
Please take the following in context of constructive criticism from a supporter.
Yes, certainly, I'd like to see something like that Notemaker's Bible in the NLTse. However, the bottom line is that I'd simply like a copy of the NLTse that I can use in public. If I could start with that, I'd hold off on my most specific wants until later on.
Most of my preparation for teaching is done in Accordance where I have access to the original languages and English translations. We've been studying Acts at church, and in preparation for teaching a book like that, I will often have five columns running in Accordance: The Greek NT, the NASB, HCSB, TNIV and NLT. I call this my "core" and it is a minimum set of versions along with the original languages that I use to look at a passage. I like these four translations because they move across the formal to dynamic spectrum, giving me a better understanding of the passage and allowing me to check my own translation of the Greek NT. In electronic form, an "edition" of the NLT simply does not matter.
Where an edition matters is if I want to take it with me and/or use it in public. Back in the NLT1 days, I had a leather copy of the NLT TouchPoint Bible which was a really nice edition of the NLT in which the text was neither crowded or too small.
The group I teach at church is made up of about 70% of NIV readers (I actually take "official" polls now and then). Because of this, I teach from the TNIV. But NLT usage is actually rising in our class as it seems to be elsewhere. As I mentioned in my post Rise of the New Living Translation, I can easily envision a day where I might have a majority of NLT readers in a Bible study. I, personally, would have no problem teaching from the NLT in such a case. And the truth is that I've both taught and even preached from the NLT before although in the past its usage among others was never enough for it to become my primary public translation. But as we've all discussed lately, that may very well change.
But if that were to happen, Kevin, what edition of the NLT am I supposed to use in public? The old NLT1 TouchPoint or even the NoteMaker's Bible would have been perfect for public use. But I can't find anything comparable among the NLTse offerings.
I mentioned in my comments to part 1 of this post that I had purchased the NLTse large print Premium Slimline. At the time, I was seriously considering making the NLT my primary Bible for use with the college students I teach during the week at the IWU campus in Louisville.
And yet, after ordering it through Amazon.com and actually getting a copy in hand, it was a disaster. As I've already described, the text in the inner columns is so close to the spine, it's virtually unusable for public use, and frankly, I wouldn't want to use it heavily privately. Now, Kevin, I tried. I really tried. I carried it with me for three or four weeks, and I would use my fingers to really press it flat, to really try to spread those pages apart from each other. Of course, I realized that if I continued to do this for any period of time, the pages would fall out because it's a glued binding and simply not meant to withstand that kind of constant physical pressure.
So my Premium Slimline is shelved, and I continue to use the TNIV with my college students--which is fine because I like the TNIV, but I'll admit that I really thought the NLT might connect with them a tad better.
After my comments on your other blog entry, I pulled the Premium Thinline off the shelf again to give it another look. A few months had passed, so I wondered if it would still come across as so awkward for public use. I don't know what I expected. It's not like the pages were going to grow longer inner margins if I simply gave them enough time. I look at it now and feel it is still unusable. In fact, in looking at it again, I realized that I don't think I'll ever use it. So I've now got it in a stack to sell used on Amazon.com. In the big picture of things, I feel that's a real shame.
I know this is long, but please bear with me a little while longer.
Today, I had a couple of extra minutes, so on my way to my office, I stopped at a local Christian book store to look at the editions of the NLT. They had a very nice selection with the NLT in two separate parts of their Bible section as well as an endcap with one of the NLT Bibles aimed at teenagers (unfortunately, I don't remember which one).
As I pulled NLT after NLT off the shelf and opened boxes to look at them, I was very disheartened to see MANY editions suffering from the cramped text and readability issues that plague my Premium Slimline. Every copy that said "personal" or "slimline"--basically any of the text editions--had a lot of very cramped text that frankly, I wouldn't want to spend a whole lot of time trying to read (and if I haven't said it before, I really don't want a slimline Bible, period).
I couldn't find anything like the old TouchPoint Bible with its roominess and uncluttered text. In fact, the layout that I actually liked the best and felt was the most inviting to read was the NLT on the endcap aimed at teenagers! There was part of me that wanted to compromise and buy that one--use it in spite of the extra materials aimed at folks quite a bit younger than my age. But obviously that's not what I ultimately want either
I left the store without purchasing anything.
One last point... in my most recent post on This Lamp, one of my readers made a very interesting comment: "I feel that Tyndale had better quality control with the NLT-1. I feel that the Bibles were much sturdier than the editions of the NLT-2."
I hate to say it, but I agree with him. Granted, it's not across the board. The upcoming NLT Study Bible looks great, for instance.
However, across the product line, there does seem to be a lack of quality control in terms of not only physical materials, but also in terms of attention to layout.
The "can vs. should" debate is valid. But in the midst of all the talk of can vs. should, we should also throw in there some consideration of the word ought. What kind of Bible ought a company like Tyndale to make to represent its flagship, the NLT? Surely something better than what we've seen so far?
Answer that, and I'll be excited about buying an edition for use in public.
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